Curse

manitoba1073 · Aug 08, 2008, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Evisc/DSlash Warriors do more damage.

Always have and always will. I was showing that the damage output was still the same. Considering that is what most people only think about is pure output.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

The skills weren't actually buffed, per say. They're more effective at low ranks now, but at max they're the same. Besides, I'd much rather have more effective PvE skills at lower ranks than ursan.

Oh, you're serious..

They removed energy degen, yes. All professions have same health and armor, yes. But that really doesn't matter, because you can no longer keep it up indefinitely. That one change is what makes it a nerf. Also, that damage is pathetic. Trying to justify ursan is still good by posting shitty DPS at the master of damage is really contradicting yourself.

That is what outweighs the the nerf to UB and yes you can run it almost indefinately now and its even better for the reason I mention. Maybe if you and a few others around werent so full fail, You might have notice that part. It was a big buff to UB.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 09, 2008, 12:04 AM // 00:04

The damage output was never the reason Ursan was uber. The extra armor, extra life, and massive damage mitigation through perma-AoE-knockdown and perma-weakness, and the fact that it could be played by a spastic vegetable, was. And still is.

Ursan can still be used much like it used to, but it can't be played mindlessly by mashing buttons any more - now you actually have to bring a build and coordinate a bit. So I guess it was a successful nerf really.

EDIT: I also now need to get a new avatar.

Faer · Aug 09, 2008, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Always have and always will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

you can run it almost indefinately

This is the key.

Properly constructed normal teams will indefinitely provide better utility and damage than Ursan teams, while the Ursan teams now have to deal with almost indefinitely being able to do almost what they did before. Making them, logically and mathematically speaking, less effective than normal, balanced teams.

In Guild Wars, he who is more effective at what he does is the victor. Ursan is still usable, naturally, but it is no longer at the head of the Dumbpveteambuilds Snake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

EDIT: I also now need to get a new avatar.

Why not go back to your old one? It was decent.

trankle · Aug 09, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Always have and always will. I was showing that the damage output was still the same. Considering that is what most people only think about is pure output.

Against a 60AL target. So against a level 20 caster in NM, yes, the damage is the same. Against a level 30 Warrior in HM DoA? Slightly less.

manitoba1073 · Aug 09, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

The damage output was never the reason Ursan was uber. The extra armor, extra life, and massive damage mitigation through perma-AoE-knockdown and perma-weakness, and the fact that it could be played by a spastic vegetable, was. And still is.

Ursan can still be used much like it used to, but it can't be played mindlessly by mashing buttons any more - now you actually have to bring a build and coordinate a bit. So I guess it was a successful nerf really.

EDIT: I also now need to get a new avatar.

Are you sure, 90% of the bitch was all about the power alone. Did you also miss the part where I said ppl who only brought UB in the first and not back up skills were retarded to begin with? Meaning the only thing thats changed really is almost nothing. Hey it was perfect training for PvP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

This is the key.

Properly constructed normal teams will indefinitely provide better utility and damage than Ursan teams, while the Ursan teams now have to deal with almost indefinitely being able to do almost what they did before. Making them, logically and mathematically speaking, less effective than normal, balanced teams.

In Guild Wars, he who is more effective at what he does is the victor. Ursan is still usable, naturally, but it is no longer at the head of the Dumbpveteambuilds Snake.Why not go back to your old one? It was decent.

No DUH. Thats what people who didnt want UB changed in the first place had been saying the whole damn time. That other team builds were more effective, just that it was far easier before to get into otherwise exclusive groups for areas.

But hey, its gonna get even worse now on the descrimination. Heres the next phase- LFP must be r10 Norn r10 Ebon. give it a week and you will see.

Hows all that gold you made after the first nerf to Sf going for you from all those cheap ectos you bought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

Against a 60AL target. So against a level 20 caster in NM, yes, the damage is the same. Against a level 30 Warrior in HM DoA? Slightly less.

To bad now there are effects that do effect that damage and make it higher.

when before they didnt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

Haven't had this much fun since, well ever. I like this even better then before because I prefer to farm in hardmode and since they range attack means they don't scattering it is great.

Latest run was sweet, got another sapphire. I used a cupcake for up the hill so I could bring another damager but was totally useless so going back to dark escape.

I am using the Perma Sin Sliver.

HM is always fun

Maybe I should show you my 5 boss run sometime. Gonna listen to my eurodance station when playing lol

Nevin · Aug 09, 2008, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Flashing Blades = Perma Glad's Defense? I miss the old days of glad farming trolls... Whats the world come to?

Numa Pompilius · Aug 09, 2008, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Are you sure, 90% of the bitch was all about the power alone.

Yeah, I know, but that's because people are morons.
A dslash build has always had higher dps than ursan, yet taking 5 dslashers and three healing monks into DoA HM is suicide. Because ursans power wasn't really about the dealing of damage, it was about not taking it.

Quote:

Did you also miss the part where I said ppl who only brought UB in the first and not back up skills were retarded to begin with?

Yeah... In theory I agree, but in practice I hardly ever ended up using my back up skillset. I brung it, but I might as well not have. Ursan only ran out if I got hit by multiple power drains.

manitoba1073 · Aug 09, 2008, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Yeah, I know, but that's because people are morons.
A dslash build has always had higher dps than ursan, yet taking 5 dslashers and three healing monks into DoA HM is suicide. Because ursans power wasn't really about the dealing of damage, it was about not taking it.

Yeah... In theory I agree, but in practice I hardly ever ended up using my back up skillset. I brung it, but I might as well not have. Ursan only ran out if I got hit by multiple power drains.

Exactly. Its still gonna be the same only now people are gonna require even more than just UB to be allowed in groups. As cons and that still effect UB once they are in UB and are not removed from the group.

Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

It was from the high armor for wars that helped reduce the damage that the bonus was comming from. now all the classes have the same armor.

DreamRunner · Aug 09, 2008, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Way of the master buff, but no nerf to wounding strike?

MrGuildBoi · Aug 09, 2008, 02:12 AM // 02:12

^Way of the Master buffed? when?

EbilCat · Aug 09, 2008, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

two words:

MINION BOMBER

Yeah well, its all fine and good if you are a looking at it from the perspective of using it on a hero, they're the only ones who can use death nova efficiently. We humans have no way of targeting minions short of clicking on them.

Pretty bad skill change when looking at it from a player controlled MM's perspective.

fenix · Aug 09, 2008, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Re; Ebon Sniper percentages. Stop trying to add them all together. The percentage of hitting is 8x 10%. It's ONLY 8x10%. None of this 66% or 80% to hit, it doesn't add up over the 8. It's still just 8x10% to hit. Which is still bad. If you had 8 necros doing bspike you'd kill HEAPS faster than Ebon Sniper, and in fact if you used most balanced builds you'd kill faster as well.

Ursan is dead, give up. There's no point running it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilis

A dslash build has always had higher dps than ursan, yet taking 5 dslashers and three healing monks into DoA HM is suicide. Because ursans power wasn't really about the dealing of damage, it was about not taking it.

But you see, IF you had 5x Dslash and 3 monks, you'd have at least 2 copies of SY with you, then another 3 warriors to bring Utilities on. Far more defense than an Ursan build, as you're taking 85% less damage, and have base armor of at least 100 on all the Warriors.

Master Ketsu · Aug 09, 2008, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGuildBoi

^Way of the Master buffed? when?

He probably confused it with way of the assassin.

Ultra Mega · Aug 09, 2008, 04:16 AM // 04:16

And it has just been changed to only work with daggers.

Arkantos · Aug 09, 2008, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

That is what outweighs the the nerf to UB and yes you can run it almost indefinately now and its even better for the reason I mention. Maybe if you and a few others around werent so full fail, You might have notice that part. It was a big buff to UB.

LOL. LOLOLOL. Sorry, I really did LOL.

It can no longer be kept up indefinitely, it used to be able to be kept up indefinitely. It also does a lot less damage in the long run, with the armor ignoring to slashing damage nerf.

Quote:

Ursan is dead, give up. There's no point running it.

This is incorrect. People who are bad at the game (ITT: some people bad at the game) are going to continue running ursan, simply because they're shit at balanced.

R.Shayne · Aug 09, 2008, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

HM is always fun

Maybe I should show you my 5 boss run sometime. Gonna listen to my eurodance station when playing lol

The run in the picture wasn't HM, it was NM, someone asked if it was possible to run the build in nm, didn't know the answer so I tried it.

It has been taking me 50+ minutes and I think some are hitting the one hour mark so it will probably not be a popular farm since it breaks the 30 minute rule and that might actually save the ecto price. Now I just got to work out a way to get obsidian shards to go with my ecto.

One of the things I really like is the narrow gap between rank 7 and rank 10 in the PvE only skills.

I never had a problem with long farms and UW adds a little variety.

I would really like to see the boss farm.

IGN for Assassin is: Sinafay Abaeir

Avarre · Aug 09, 2008, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Are you unable to answer normaly to a post??

Be honest with us: is this your way of saying you don't understand the basic ideas Faer outlined?

Now, I don't know about the rest of the mods doing work here, but personally I'm rather tired of misinformation and bad concepts being thrown around. This is a site for information and, in theory, quality assistance, not for crap.

This thread is for discussion on the update and balance implications. Not 'casual' theorycraft on issues that don't relate to balance whatsoever. I don't see much reason in me not ordering all moderators to outright ban users that do not comply with the basic outline of discussion and a basic level of quality if they wish to attempt to contribute.

You are warned. All of you.

Magikarp · Aug 09, 2008, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

That is what outweighs the the nerf to UB and yes you can run it almost indefinately now and its even better for the reason I mention. Maybe if you and a few others around werent so full fail, You might have notice that part. It was a big buff to UB.

im sorry, but i read the last few pages of this mess, and all i can say is, please, please don't talk for the next year or so on gwg...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Be honest with us: is this your way of saying you don't understand the basic ideas Faer outlined?

Now, I don't know about the rest of the mods doing work here, but personally I'm rather tired of misinformation and bad concepts being thrown around. This is a site for information and, in theory, quality assistance, not for crap.

This thread is for discussion on the update and balance implications. Not 'casual' theorycraft on issues that don't relate to balance whatsoever. I don't see much reason in me not ordering all moderators to outright ban users that do not comply with the basic outline of discussion and a basic level of quality if they wish to attempt to contribute.

You are warned. All of you.

thank you.. finally this thread has some actual direction.

as for the updates, im REALLY shocked at the responsive reaction to WotA, and i love the balances, even if a few of them still keep the skills at a so-so level.. at least they're usable

FalconDance · Aug 09, 2008, 12:48 PM // 12:48

So far, I'd say the changes are for the better over all. Sniper was rather fun to run last night.

Flashing Blades was *annoying* as all hell to come up against, especially using Volley/Barrage! And their damage kick-back was considerably higher than what is posted (but not within critical range, I don't think). Not too sure why, going to have to ponder.

The hero monks did seem to Heal a little more effectively (as in, not use skills when un-necessary).

But we ran into a completely baffling problem I have never seen before. I was helping friends with Vizunah (Local). The foreign "team" was all hench. Everyone made it through the initial battle with no trouble. We joined and defeated the next bunch of Afflicted easily. Then the hench team took off to parts unknown, and we never saw them again! I teased they were taking the back way to the foe, but .........

AJD · Aug 09, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Drops Az

Seems like someone who only sees nerfs and not buffs (glass half empty always?)

I also know a lot of people who QQ but then buy the next chapter so your point is?
I truly believe that very few people know what they will do until GW2 is a month before being on the shelves and we all have a better idea of what the game is about.

That applies to every game, unless you have the telepathy interface on your computer.....

There are no more chapters and I for one am steering people clear of the guild wars franchise.

The game is dead but the few hardcore whiners.

He who yells the loudest gets his way.

[edit]I was leaning heavily towards GW2 whenever they deign to release it (giving them 5 more years at the rate that info is being released) but now it is Diablo 3 all the way and no looking back.

Anet sure shot themselves in the foot, have fun being bankrupt, idiots.